E361T Progress - 671 to 671T

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Re: E361T Progress - 671 to 671T

Postby Junkmandan » Sun Jan 10, 2016 11:09 am

Stan------Who'd derate a 6-71, especially by 1974, when the 8V71 was selling great?

Our DD distributer in Cleveland had a field service guy working full time at White Motor Co. to pull housings, change timing and injectors on 8V71 engines in the skid, before they went in fleet trucks . 290 HP with 60mm,260 with 55mm, even 245 with 71N5 for Roadway . 71N5 was a typical city transit bus calibration. But the creed was advanced timing for N65 or C65 and above using the 1.484 timing tool, standard timing for 60 mm and down, using the 1.460 timing tool . Newer production , DD developed 8 or 10 timing tool dimensions for newer injector designations.
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Re: E361T Progress - 671 to 671T

Postby oldspwr » Sun Jan 10, 2016 12:33 pm

Thanks for the info Dan, my Dad always talks about how Roadway derated their trucks.

I misspoke about the year of our 671. I am 99.9% sure it came out of S34 which is a 1972, not 1974 (sorry Ted!) There was a write up in Brockway today a number of years back that talked about Sears Oil and S34. When they put it in service they replaced the 671 with an L10 Cummins. The serial number of S34 was written in crayon on our bell housing.

I checked the serial number and it is 6A248471, model number 1067-8040. Based on the serial number it was manufactured in 1971. 1972 blocks started at 248936.

I had a Detroit guy stop at work one day to check out the truck and I'm pretty sure he said it had advanced timing based on how it sounded. I'm not sure, can you hear the difference?
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Re: E361T Progress - 671 to 671T

Postby Huskiedrive2 » Sun Jan 10, 2016 4:37 pm

Junkmandan -I'm well aware of all the variations of timing, the different pin tools (I have them all) and the many different tune/hp combinations DD used thru the years. I was a member of the elite Detroit Diesel Service technicians Guild for 25 years. Being a Guild member, we had monthly service bulletins with insider information not released to the public on the development of new engine HP variations and on the retrofit/upgrade of old engines. I am not arguing your point, I agree with you that it could be adv timed, but being an old school mechanic, I was taught that you never assume anything on any engine, then just throw parts at it. I was taught that you VERIFY everything and build correctly. This results in durability and performance, then you have a happy customer.
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Re: E361T Progress - 671 to 671T

Postby oldspwr » Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:30 pm

Once I was done with the top section of exhaust I started working on the bottom. I scored this nice double 90 on Ebay pretty reasonable...

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I was able to cut this and rotate this to pretty much match the factory routing, but I also added a piece an 8” section of stainless flex, the braided type...

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When everything was cut to length, tack welded and refit, I final welded everything. Here is the new piece in comparison to the original 4”...

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If you remember way back I used a 4” MBRP muffler that a friend had given me. When I decided to upgrade to 5” I called MBRP to discuss the different mufflers they offered and ordered the one the recommended. When I received it I realized it’s not what we discussed. The outer diameter is still the same as my 4” (about 6” in diameter) so there is actually less packing in this one. I’m still up in the air with this one, but I did build the exhaust around a 31” muffler with a 24” long body.

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I took a look at Dynaflex’s website and they list a ton of tech info on their mufflers and resonators (like back pressure, etc.) so I may call them to discuss my options first.

In the mean time I started working on the oil drain tube. Although the rebuilt turbo came with a new tube, the junk yard turbo tube fit better for my application...

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You can see they used a series of hose splices to reach the oil pan. I wanted to run a #16 return line so I bought another AN fitting and welded it to the end of the tube...

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I had a 3’ section of #16 pressure hose (Gates) left over from when I plumbed the power steering. This wound up being the correct length for the return line, so I had a straight fitting and a 90 deg fitting crimped on at Napa. This worked out really well... I will design a bracket that mounts off of one of the air inlet bolts that a rubber insulated clamp will bolt to. This will keep the hose from vibrating, etc...

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Another thing I wanted to discuss was the location of the thermocouple for the pyrometer. I had asked the question a while back on the message board and there were two answers, locate it before the turbo and locate it after the turbo. As per Isspro’s instructions, it is supposed to be located no further than 6” past the manifold connection.

So for this project I went about 3”... I recently put one in my Duramax and that was located directly in the exhaust manifold before the turbo. They also recommend putting them in the exhaust manifold before the turbo on the Cummins 5.9’s (as per Brandon’s comment...) In fact most aftermarket manifolds for the 5.9’s come pre-drilled for the pryrometer.

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That’s it for now!
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Re: E361T Progress - 671 to 671T

Postby STRETCH » Mon Jan 11, 2016 9:42 pm

WOW!!!

That's all I got!!!

Hahaha :lol: :lol:

Great job guys!

Stretch 8)
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Re: E361T Progress - 671 to 671T

Postby Junkmandan » Tue Jan 12, 2016 4:49 pm

Pyrometer sensor after turbo is where most are installed. The guys with aluminum pistons where they turn up the wick on the fuel may install the sensor ahead of the turbo, as I've heard aluminum pistons can melt above 1100*F.

You'll never see that, you may get to 700-750*.

From another Guild member, I was in the Partsman Guild til about '88.
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Re: E361T Progress - 671 to 671T

Postby wingman » Tue Jan 12, 2016 7:46 pm

Hi Tom, not to change the subject from your engine but did you make the stainless light bars under the doors on your truck or did you buy them somewhere? I really like those and would like to do the same on my 361 and N257. Thanks, Bob
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Re: E361T Progress - 671 to 671T

Postby H762TL » Tue Jan 12, 2016 8:48 pm

wingman wrote:Hi Tom, not to change the subject from your engine but did you make the stainless light bars under the doors on your truck or did you buy them somewhere? I really like those and would like to do the same on my 361 and N257. Thanks, Bob


Here is a link to his original post about the skirts.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1044&p=24188&hilit=panelite#p24188
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03 Chevy Duramax work in progress
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Re: E361T Progress - 671 to 671T

Postby oldspwr » Thu Apr 21, 2016 6:37 pm

And now time for an update on my Dad’s truck...

Through some mutual friends I found a guy in Milanville, PA that does powder coating along with ceramic coating. I had talked to him about coating the exhaust pieces for the truck and we agreed on a satin black ceramic coating good for 2000 degrees. The main reason I wanted to do this was to prevent rust, especially the exhaust manifold and where the pipes were welded together. I dropped off the parts about a month ago with the understanding it would take a few weeks to turn them around.

At the end of the day I would up deciding to coat the manifold, downpipe, turbo housing and the pipe that connected the downpipe to the muffler and the T after the muffler...

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In the meantime we went to work on the air intake. Like I mentioned a while back, it appears that the motor was pulled at one time and when the set it back in the frame, they bumped the frame rail and cracked the intake. To make matters worse, they just welded it as it was and never pushed the dent / crack out to where it was supposed to be. So I decided to cut it out and have it re-welded...

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More to follow...
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Re: E361T Progress - 671 to 671T

Postby oldspwr » Thu Apr 21, 2016 6:38 pm

Since I can’t weld aluminum I decided to have a friend take care of it for me. He welded both the front and the back...

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He advised against grinding the welds down since the aluminum was starting to get thin in spots. So this past weekend we took it outside and painted it along with the dog house for the 155W...

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We also ran into another issue with the fitting I had welded into the oil pan last year. There was a constant drip coming from around the fitting that I could not stop so I assuming there was a pin hole in the weld. The tig weld looked perfect, but you never know. I had drained the oil from the truck a month ago and on Sunday I dropped the pan. I am considering re-installing it with Velcro to make it easier to put on and take off!

My Dad spent some time cleaning it up and the next day I dropped it off to have the outside tig welded. (This is not really application for my mig welder, the fitting is too close to the pan rail...)

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I dropped it off in the morning and picked it up after work so this weekend we should be in good shape to reinstall it. I’m still waiting on a new pan gasket and that should be here tomorrow...

More to follow...
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Re: E361T Progress - 671 to 671T

Postby oldspwr » Thu Apr 21, 2016 6:40 pm

Last week I got the call the exhaust parts were done so I picked them up and started getting things ready to put everything back together. The satin black finish looks great and so far we are happy with how they turned out...

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We started with installing the manifold and the turbo...

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And then moved onto the rear T...

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We also made another change to the exhaust. Originally I bought a new stainless 5” muffler from MBRP after talking to their tech department. After I received it, I realized the outside diameter was no larger than the 4” muffler. At that point I started looking into other options and decided to buy a 10” long resonator made by Dynaflex...

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I couldn’t go with any of the longer ones because they would wind up hitting the transmission. I am hoping that the combination of the turbo along with the resonator will make it a little quieter that it was before. It took a few weeks to get the resonator but it’s made in the USA and is built well...

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Since the resonator was a little shorter than the MBRP muffler, I needed to make a short extension. Using the original 5” ID end from the T fitting and short section, I was able to make the piece I needed...

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Since I made this after the other parts went to be coated, I painted it a hi heat paint Napa sells. So we’ll see how it works out...

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Well that’s it for now!
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Re: E361T Progress - 671 to 671T

Postby oldspwr » Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:05 pm

As luck would have it, I was able to get the correct air inlet that lines up correctly with the turbo without the offset coupler. I believe it came off of a 1982 fire truck. I just got it yesterday!

The issue is that it does not have the emergency shut off flap in it. Neither did the one from the cabover... So my question is, do you still need the emergency shut off flap if you are using a spring loaded rack? In other words, I have the rack the prevents one stuck injector from holding the rest open.
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Re: E361T Progress - 671 to 671T

Postby Huskiedrive2 » Thu Apr 21, 2016 9:35 pm

DDA did quit using the air door when they went to the spring loaded rack, so you should be fine Tom. If I remember correctly, there was some concerns that if the door snapped closed by accident under full boost pressure, it could damage the turbo or piping, so it was removed. I vaguely remember a customer being concerned there was no e-stop on his new truck. With a yield style rack, if one injector should hang, the others can still respond to governor commands. The one cylinder at full fuel will make some black smoke but it won't go wild. The shut off cable or solenoid will pull the other 5 to no fuel and it may still try to fire on one but is easily stalled out with the clutch if need be.
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Re: E361T Progress - 671 to 671T

Postby BrockwayNick » Sat Apr 23, 2016 12:19 pm

Hey Tom. Great work as usual. If you are not going to use that 5" muffler from MBR, I would buy it from you if you are interested in selling it. I need to put one on my Peterbilt, but I have the one from Dyneflex like you have now. My issue is the Dynaflex is to big in diameter for where I need to put it. That MBR one would be perfect. If you are interested in selling it please let me know. Thanks.
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Re: E361T Progress - 671 to 671T

Postby oldspwr » Fri May 13, 2016 10:42 am

Brockway_Nick... please check your inbox...

I was able to have the fitting re-welded on the oil pan, this time on the outside as well...

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Now with the correct air intake in hand, we put in in the parts washer to clean the inside...

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And that we sandblasted the several coats of paint off of it... Later that day when it warmed up, I took it outside and painted it...

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While waiting for the paint to dry I decided to modify the air box drain tank I installed l last summer. This was a factory Detroit piece I scored off of eBay along with check valves.

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This tank replaced the two smaller tanks I made, but I had to use round spacers, about 2” long for it to clear the oil pan...

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I didn’t really care for the idea of using spacer so I decided to extend the bracket so that the ‘L’ part would sit flush against the pan. I started by cutting the lower part of the L bracket off and extending the legs...

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After the legs were extended, I made new L brackets out of 1 1/4" angle, and then welded them to the extensions...

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And here is the finished product...

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More to follow...
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Re: E361T Progress - 671 to 671T

Postby fuller10b1120 » Tue May 17, 2016 7:57 pm

I have a factory rebuilt turbo for 8v71 I need to clean out stuff
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Re: E361T Progress - 671 to 671T

Postby stubnosebrock » Wed May 18, 2016 5:32 pm

fuller10b1120 wrote:I have a factory rebuilt turbo for 8v71 I need to clean out stuff

Price and location? Any other stuff?
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Re: E361T Progress - 671 to 671T

Postby fuller10b1120 » Wed May 18, 2016 8:51 pm

i am open to most any offer aiso have rebuilt blower installed but never run. stored inside.
located in augusta me, east coast meeting on fla. route this fall.
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Re: E361T Progress - 671 to 671T

Postby oldspwr » Thu Jun 02, 2016 6:15 am

I had to order a new gasket for the oil pan so when that arrived we reinstalled the oil pan along with the revised air box drain tank. Then we turned our attention to the connection to the air cleaner. The inlet of the turbo was 5” but all of the tubing and fittings we had was 5 1/2". Fortunately I found a reducing bushing from intakehoses.com

I already had (2) 90’s from the original installation but I needed one more. I had an extra one in my collection from the truck we bought the jake from. One end was trimmed crooked, but I was able to trim about a 1/2" off to straighten it out. This also helped since it was bumping the upper radiator hose.

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And here it is trimmed with the reducing bushing...

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I also ordered a straight piece of 5 1/2" aluminum from the same place, intakehoses.com

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Using a short piece of the aluminum tubing, I joined the two original 90’s together and then installed the 2’ straight section.

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At this point I realized I wanted another 2’ section to run from the Farr air cleaner to the first 90. I could have spliced it with the original hub connector I had (which is shown in the pic above), but I like the idea of one single piece, especially since the down pipe would be close to the hub connector.

Once the paint had dried on the new air inlet, we installed it and made the final connection to the turbo. I also ordered a new 3.5” straight coupling section from HPS to replace the 1/2" offset connector I bought a while back...

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More to follow!
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Re: E361T Progress - 671 to 671T

Postby oldspwr » Thu Jun 02, 2016 6:56 am

So this takes us to 4 weeks ago when it finally stopped raining long enough for us to pull the truck out of the garage and start it. So we aired the tanks up and pulled it out with the 4 wheeler...

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Russ Bachman also paid a visit and spent the day in the garage with us!

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At that point we were able to start the truck but rain was on it’s way so we backed it back into the garage. At that point I decided to replace the 3/8” push to lock hose for the air box drains with 3/8” tube (for fuel lines...). I felt this would help keep things clean underneath since I would have needed to make a few brackets to support the 3/8” hose off of the oil pan. When I was originally looking for air box check valves, I bought a kit on eBay that plumbed the oil from the air boxes back into the oil pan, through the dipstick. I still had the steel lines from that kit so I cut them up and used the tube nuts that connected to the check valves on my new lines...

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These worked out pretty well and cleaned things up a bit underneath...

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One of the last things I needed to do was make a support for the turbo oil drain hose I made. I didn’t want to take a chance and have vibration crack the steel tube section of the return line, so I make a bracket to clamp the hose off of the air intake. I started by making a wide hose clamp...

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And then I made a bracket to mount off 2 of the bolts for the air intake...

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And here is the two pieces together...

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And then I installed both of them, this pic should help clarify what I was trying to do...

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More to follow...
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