E761L Progress... 1st Project

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Re: E761L Progress... 1st Project

Postby Scranton 761 » Fri Dec 11, 2015 12:31 am

This is the way all the other brackets were... On the same plane with the bolts.
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Since I was actually expecting this, we didn't have as many welds to cut and I didn't put the gussets on for the test fit. So, pull the bracket. Break out the .045" wheels again, this time with engine in place. After the tweak, the #3 test fit was perfect.
Finished product.
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That's all for now.
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Re: E761L Progress... 1st Project

Postby tomcat361 » Fri Dec 11, 2015 9:33 am

Hi Paul !
Thanks for the progress report ! Everything looks great !!!!

Tom Sr.
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Re: E761L Progress... 1st Project

Postby Scranton 761 » Sat Feb 13, 2016 8:49 pm

When all was said and done, needless to say it did fit!
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Since this engine came out of a CF, the oil pan and pick-up had to be swapped. While it was off, I touched up the oil pressure relief valve with valve grinding compound. When I started, the valve was only touching the seat about 2/3 of the way around. Sorry, I couldn't get a decent pic of the seat.
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Valve cover was about 2 weeks worth of "spare time" work. Thanks to the Millards for blazing the trail on this one. The aluminum "warts" GM left on this one were so bad, I actually started with 80 grit paper and worked up from there. This was a lot more than "a little elbow grease" :roll:. I finished with wet 1500 grit and Master Formula Metal Gloss with a Round-Up wool pad. I use this stuff on the motorcycle wheels and it works great!
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Round #2 for the exhaust manifold coating. Round #1 was "aluminum". Hated it!! Back in the slag blaster. This KBS coating is a silicone based "paint". It seemes to have a rubbery feel to it.
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The manifold and adapter were seasoned multiple times on top of the wood burner between 300* -600*. We'll see what exhaust heat actually does to it.
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When I pulled the compressor off the old engine, this was the upper bracket. You pretty much have to use this style of bracket vs the one that goes to the top of the cylinder head, when your ports are towards the engine.
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After tacking it, vee-ing it out, welding it fast, and reinforcing the underside.
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Re: E761L Progress... 1st Project

Postby Huskiedrive2 » Sat Feb 13, 2016 10:25 pm

Very good Paul! You are overcoming some of the original design flaws I had to fix 30 years ago, like the compressor bracket. It was a chronic problem back then. You never understand just how many variations there are to a Brockway motor mount bracket until you have a box of them at your feet and none work. I went through the same trouble when I upgraded the Cummins in Blackie from natural aspirated to turbo. The NA lays over and the turbo-ed engine stands upright so a mount change was required. I ended up copying a the mounts from a Cortland Co. 361 with a NTC 290. I'm not as smart as Paul is in the fabrication dept. so I had to copy something!
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Re: E761L Progress... 1st Project

Postby quadbox » Sat Feb 13, 2016 10:42 pm

Thanks Paul for updates. It makes sitting inside bearable. Joe D.
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Re: E761L Progress... 1st Project

Postby Scranton 761 » Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:59 pm

Thanks guys!
If I was that good Stan, it wouldn't have taken 3 tries... And there wouldn't be shims behind the brackets :wink:.

I'll try to be a little more timely with the posts Joe... I also look forward to new info.

Popped the oil pan off the old 6-71 today. Amazing what you find floating around inside a 39 year old engine. Can't help but wonder how long it was like this.
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Re: E761L Progress... 1st Project

Postby oldspwr » Mon Feb 15, 2016 7:10 am

Hi Paul...

Thanks for posting the pics!

I have a quick question... In the pic showing the compressor sitting on the engine with the repaired support bracket, it is sitting on the engine backwards?

Actually 2 questions, and by CF you mean cab forward?

Thanks!

Tom
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Re: E761L Progress... 1st Project

Postby Mike Pacitto » Mon Feb 15, 2016 7:55 am

Nice work Paul, thats half the fun of working on Brockways. even when you have the "right" part it is wrong.
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Re: E761L Progress... 1st Project

Postby Scranton 761 » Mon Feb 15, 2016 12:11 pm

oldspwr wrote:Hi Paul...
In the pic showing the compressor sitting on the engine with the repaired support bracket, it is sitting on the engine backwards?

Yes, it was easier to work on it there (install brackets, etc) ... I didn't have to damage any paint.
oldspwr wrote:Actually 2 questions, and by CF you mean cab forward?

Yes, not sure what make the cut-off was but it was definitely from a fire truck... One would think it would have had a turbo on it. Radiator had Volvo labels.
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Re: E761L Progress... 1st Project

Postby wingman » Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:26 pm

Sorry to jump in here in the middle of this conversation, but I have a question here for Huskydrive2. I am planning a engine change in my 361 from a NA to a 290, and I am wondering if you have any pictures of the mounts you made or dimensions? Also were you able to reuse the front mount? Thanks
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Re: E761L Progress... 1st Project

Postby Huskiedrive2 » Tue Feb 16, 2016 1:32 am

Wingman - I used all stock Brockway mounts, just had to measure and copy from an existing unit. Brockway only bought lay-over bell housings (15 degree tilt to right) When the engine sits upright on a NTA engine, the mount on the left side has a lower riser block by about 1" than a NA. The right side mount has a very tall spacer block installed to level the engine, about 4". The oil pan rail is, side to side, level in relation to the frame. Even though the bell is telling the engine to lay over, the mounts being uneven, straighten it back upright. The front mount on a NTA is the trunion style (looks like a main bearing saddle). Remember that the engine sits in the frame 2" to the right of center (closer to the pass frame rail). This provides clearance for the steering box. For those of you wondering why leveling the engine needs to be done, on a turbocharged Cummins, the turbo will hit the fender and hood on a 361 if the engine is laid over the normal 15 degrees.
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Re: E761L Progress... 1st Project

Postby wingman » Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:26 am

So if I get this right, to level the engine with the original mounts you add spacers on the right (Pass side) side. So the bell housing on the NTA is different and I would have to use the NA housing on the NTA and put spacers in the right side? I also will be adding PS to it. I bought a sheppard setup from Ritchie Zigmont to make it a little easier to steer. It has a very heavy push bumper on the front (It's a wrecker) and makes it a hand full to steer!
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Re: E761L Progress... 1st Project

Postby Huskiedrive2 » Tue Feb 16, 2016 1:12 pm

If you have a "level" bell housing on the NTA motor, just build frame mounts to give you the proper inclination angle of about 5 degrees down at the rear of the crank. The engine runs downhill in the frame. Or, install the NA bell on the NTA then drop the left side and raise the right until the engine is level side to side. Install you power steering while the engine is out, much easier. Then set the engine and see where you are with the original front crossmember and motor mount, Install the front first and then build the back. Stan
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Re: E761L Progress... 1st Project

Postby wingman » Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:01 pm

Thanks Stan. I figured I would have to do some crafting to make mounts. I did figure to install the steering when engine is out. I can just stand there in the engine compartment to work on it! Also install new brake valve and air lines while engine is out. Thanks for the help and sorry to high jack the post!
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Re: E761L Progress... 1st Project

Postby Scranton 761 » Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:11 pm

So if the game is Brockway Jeopardy, the answer is: "because everything you touch is smashed, broken, underengineered, neglected to the point of complete destruction, etc.". You know the question.
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I still find it amazing this bracket will support the weight and vibration of an alternator... Although not without cracking.
And yes, that is a new water pump tucked in there. Thanks Stan!
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For the throttle linkage flange bearings, McMaster Carr had dry run bronze bearings 1/4" shorter, or 1/2" longer (bolt center). I opted for the longer ones. Without a milling machine, I nipped away at it with a band saw, then finished it up with the belt sander. I had 1/2" round cold rolled on the shelf which was straight and spun free, so I skipped the TG&P.
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That's all for now.... Thanks for watching 8)
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Re: E761L Progress... 1st Project

Postby quadbox » Wed Mar 23, 2016 8:38 pm

Thanks for the updates and pictures Paul. Joe D.
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Re: E761L Progress... 1st Project

Postby Huskiedrive2 » Wed Mar 23, 2016 9:32 pm

Beautiful Paul! You have a good eye to be able find and correct all the problems from 40 years of abuse and neglect. Just goes to show you how tough these dogs are, today's tupperware trucks fold up in 10 years or so! Tech line is always open, keep in touch.
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Re: E761L Progress... 1st Project

Postby Scranton 761 » Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:42 pm

Just a little plumbing today.
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I have no idea what was going on here (before)... :roll:
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A little neater.
I did reuse the 45° flare fittings on the compressor drain. Everything else is now 37° JIC.
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That's all for now.
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Re: E761L Progress... 1st Project

Postby Scranton 761 » Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:36 am

It's been a long time since the last update. Hopefully this will answer some questions this weekend.
Looks like some water got between the 2 lips of the rear main..... So, now was the time.
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I ordered Genuine DD parts. Seal was exactly the same, the wear sleeve was a different story. No recessed pilot to get it started on the crank made it less than pleasant. Took the old one, ground the chamfer flat and used it as a driver.
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I used some heavyweight plastic to get the teflon seal up over the chamfer without damage.
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I did have to call in an expert to help with the clutch installation.
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Miss Hailey did a great job!
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She's been itching to put "the big orange H" on also, so we got that done.
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Trans detailed, resealed, regasketed, release bearing shafts replaced, and electronic speedo changed back to mechanical.
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Trans mount started....
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Trans mount in progress....
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Complete.
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Last edited by Scranton 761 on Tue Aug 16, 2016 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: E761L Progress... 1st Project

Postby Scranton 761 » Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:23 am

After I got all this done. I wanted to get the radiator and fluids in, run it, and get some heat in it with everything spinning to check for leaks. Needless to say, I'm still working on cleaning and regasketing the radiator to see if the core is salvageable. Even though I paid a very well known radiator shop $280.00 + tax to do all of this nearly 3 years ago. It's been laying on a pallet ever since.
I figured I'd have it all ready for when I needed it. I need it now!! More wasted time :evil:
Here's what I found when I opened it up..... ABSOLUTELY PATHETIC!!!!
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Here's what I swept up from the driveway after multiple flushings of the upper baffled tank. The driveway was clean before I started. What would this crap have done to my new water pump seals? What about sandblasting of the radiator core from the inside out? I think the answer is obvious.
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Lower tank removed yesterday.
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More than one use for a 6-71 dipstick.
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After my cleaning.
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For anyone working with gasket tape, I found that a step bit was the best way to drill the holes. You just have to keep cleaning the glue off the bit with lacquer thinner.
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8-14-16
Great Show!! Thanks to all who made it happen!!
While pancakes were being served in Cortland, I was back home finishing the radiator. I slagblasted the lower tank and coated the inside with (partially cured / going bad) Chassis Saver. I figured it would be one less place for crud to form. I left the gasket surface bare blasted as per mfrs. instructions.
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After assembly and air testing the gaskets with soapy water, I filled it with water and food coloring, placed it on white cardboard, ran it up to 25psi, and let it sit overnight.... No leaks!! 8)
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More to come on this.... We'll see if they're stand-up guys.

That's all for now.........
Last edited by Scranton 761 on Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:31 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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