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 Post subject: Re: new to me Brockway F-257-T
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:07 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:51 am
Posts: 127
Location: Littleton, MA
Hi Mark, The Ford does look like a nice option. I found another link where they are selling a rollback that is mounted on a trailer. It might be what you need with less investment but everything presents it own unique advantages and challenges. http://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/bfs/1852699651.html

paul


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 Post subject: Re: new to me Brockway F-257-T
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:25 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:09 am
Posts: 112
Location: North Adams, Massachusetts
Hmmm, interesting. The angle of the trailer is so low you could pull a Corvette on it at 50 mph.
It seems people want 7500 for a rollback body and only 2500 more for a whole functioning rollback truck. See the tandem International in the ad? Another example: there is also a 24' wood deck roolback body near Brattleboro, Vermont for 7500. Or, 10,000 for the whole truck. The truck is a 78 Kenworth tandem axle and the rollback is still mounted on it.
http://hartford.craigslist.org/for/1816239175.html

Another Rollback in Pittsfield, MA: http://westernmass.craigslist.org/cto/1796053043.html


Iceslider had mentioned Calinville Truck in Illinois. They were about 5000 cheaper on a rollback body than Jerr-Dan or Century. Eitherway, all in all a new rollback body is going to be 20K and up.

Still, the tough part for me is taking apart a functioning truck for an old truck that needs restoration. I will just have to close my eyes.

Mark
Berkshire Transmissions
North Adams, Massachusetts

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Mark
Berkshire Transmissions
North Adams, Massachusetts


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 Post subject: Re: new to me Brockway F-257-T
PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:28 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:51 am
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Location: Littleton, MA
Nice find on that KW. It might give you something to use while the restoration is being done on the brock.


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 Post subject: Re: new to me Brockway F-257-T
PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 2:34 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 9:18 pm
Posts: 671
Location: Waterloo,SC
Hey Mark
Thanks for keeping us up to date on your research.
Are there any "Big Truck" Junkyards in New England or Northeast???
I seem to remember one near Greenfield Ind when I worked out of Indy.
I know there is on on I-410 on the south side of San Antonio. If you want I can get by there in the daylight and get you a phone number.
Brocky


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 Post subject: Re: new to me Brockway F-257-T
PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:40 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:09 am
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Location: North Adams, Massachusetts
Hey guys,

Off and on, I have been looking around for Rollback bodies. Well, I finally found one for pretty cheap. It is a 24' Jerr Dan Super 15. I was kinda set on a 26' 10 ton. But, the price of this 15 ton is really good. I am hoping to pick it up this weekend. The deck supposedly has everything except the PTO and pump.

Back to frame strength. I am pretty sure I will be making my truck double frame. One guy mentioned to me that I cannot increase the certified GVW of truck. Talking to a friend that works on trucks today I mentioned about this dilemma. He had said do all my frame work then have a tag axle professionally installed and the installing shop should recertify the truck for more GVW. Think this idea would work?

If I install this heavy deck on my Brockway which is currently titled for 34,000 it will probably have about 11,000-13,000 lbs of load capacity. which is less than half the 15 ton deck's capacity.


All in all, I am cannot forsee hauling around 30,000 lbs. But, if the GVW is unchanged, I don't want to get stopped by DOT with the load over capacity.


Mark
Berkshire Transmissions
North Adams, Massachusetts


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 Post subject: Re: new to me Brockway F-257-T
PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 10:23 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:09 am
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Location: North Adams, Massachusetts
Yesterday, some friends and I drove down to Pennsylvania to take a look at the rollback body. It was in pretty good shape. So I decided to buy it. We brought the open car trailer with us to be able to bring the deck and componants home. The seller had a backhoe and forklift to be able to raise the deck in the air then we'd back the trailer underneath and set it down. Well, the deck was a bit too heavy for the trailer. The tires were practically touching the fenders and the back of the trailer only had about 2 inches of ground clearance. The open car trailer just wasn't heavy enough and was getting squashed. The deck stayed in Pennsylvania....for now. The trip wasn't a total waste as we did take home the hydraulics, bracketry and other small parts. Another friend of mine has a 7 ton trailer. So, I will have to give him a call this week and see if the trailer will be availible for next weekend.

All in all, getting this rollback body puts me one step further along in the Rollback
Brockway project.


Mark
Berkshire Transmissions
North Adams, Massachusetts


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 Post subject: Re: new to me Brockway F-257-T
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 8:34 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:09 am
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Location: North Adams, Massachusetts
Hey guys,

The rollback body arrived today. A friend was willing to go pick it up without me coming along. He made it back this afternoon. The only means I had to get the deck off his trailer was to use my P&H excavator. I was dreading taking the excavator back to the shop so I had the idea to do the swap where the P&H was sitting. It was definitely easier to drive the Brockway across the street than to load and move the P&H.

Image

The reloading went pretty well. Although it was at this point I realized the excavator was too close to the truck.

Image


We got repositioned and then everything lined up.

Image


Here is a dark and hard to see pic of the deck on the back of the Brockway.

Image




The deck is in pretty darned good condition. Well worth the price. I am glad I found one that was already off the truck as I didn't really want to dismantle a good truck. As you guys know there were a couple other decks that I saw and they were all about $7500 or more. The timing worked out well and this one went for $2800----that was a lot easier price to swallow. This is a Jerr-Dan 15 ton deck. Originally I planned on a 10 ton deck, but with the additional capacity I definitely need to put a tag axle under the truck. Otherwise I might only be able to load 7 or 8 tons on the single axle. Now that all the big pieces of the puzzle are here I can hopefully make some progress over the winter on getting this thing together.



Mark
Berkshire Transmissions
North Adams, Massachusetts


Last edited by FirstEliminator on Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: new to me Brockway F-257-T
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:35 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 5:18 pm
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Location: palm bay fl usa
Hey Mark you are moving along quite well you are making great progress.
It feels good to be in my new house and I have the 358 in the new garage.
But I'm still working on the house painting and moving and should probably be another couple weeks before I start work on the Brockway.
It feels good to have an acre of property and plenty room for all the equipment.
Keep up the good work.
:D TONY

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 Post subject: Re: new to me Brockway F-257-T
PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:05 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:09 am
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Location: North Adams, Massachusetts
Hey guys,

Lately, I have been back on pondering about how to make my 257 heavy duty enough to handle the 15 ton rollback. One of the specs that Jerr Dan recommends for the 15 ton rollback body is the frame must have an RBM spec of 3,000,000 in lbs. I did some search on frame rails and found a place called P.G. Adams located in Burlington, VT. So far, they are eager to help me in determining the proper frame rail. We've gone over few scenarios over the phone and then they quickly fax out drawing with specs of the rails.

Of the scenarios we came out with so far, they are all double frame. We were speculating that grade of the original frame was (at most) 80,000 psi steel. It was recommended to stay with the same grade.

Using grade 80 steel would have to be 3/8" thick and 10 3/8" tall on the outer rail. The inner rail with a height of 9 5/8" is closer in dimension to the original frame which is 9" tall. Grafting might be a problem. A bigger problem will be doubling the frame with the inner rail as the main. The outer rail is 3/8" thick which will move out my spring hangers and such by that 3/8" on each side. I'm sure more problems will arise if I were to go this route. The RBM of this set-up was 3,040,000 in lbs.


Using grade 100 steel she was able to meet 3M RBM and have a height of 9 1/4" on the outer rail. I think this would graft to the original 9" frame much easier as it will only have an 1/8" step on the top and bottom. In this scenario the main frame is the outer rail which will not disturb suspension mounts and other component locations. The one issue that had come up with using grade 100 steel is it's compatibility with the lower grade of my original frame. She said when combining grades the figure of the lower grade must be used to calculate the RBM. The RBM would be too low if we used grade 80 with these dimensions. I mentioned the remaining section of original frame will only comprise about 1/8th of the total frame length. The majority of the truck is going to be grade 100. She said she could only go as far as calculating RBM and recommended calling one of the truck frame specialists that they do a lot of business with to ask for some advice on mixing grades.

The sections of frame that I am planning on installing will be about 30 feet long. It makes the most sense if I am going to have the cab off the truck to go as far forward as possible with the new double frame. About one foot in front of the front leaf spring's rear hanger looks like a good place to cut. A little ways ahead of that area the frame begins to taper. In the picture below, the cut will be somewhere between the air brake hose and the pitman arm bracket. This will leave about 4 or 5 feet of original frame.

Image


I feel having the double frame going far enough forward to have the spring hanger bolted though both rails would be much stronger than grafting behind the cab.

I know double frame needs to be able to twist and have some flex so you cannot weld the rails together. But, for long sections where no hangers or anything are mounted, would I need to install bolts and nuts to hold the faces of the rails together? Is it worth trying to paint between the rails before they are assembled together? Any idea on spacing between crossmembers to determine the correct number of crossmembers?

Anyone have recommendations or know where I can find some literature in properly setting up this frame project?

thanks in advance,

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Mark
Berkshire Transmissions
North Adams, Massachusetts


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 Post subject: Re: new to me Brockway F-257-T
PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 7:56 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:09 am
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Location: North Adams, Massachusetts
I did some measuring today. I will only have 4 feet of original frame left. The question is, should I just run new frame all the way to the front bumper? That would do away with the tapered section. What is the function of the tapered portion of frame?

Noty sure which way to go yet. Don't have things taken apart to see what is there and what difficulties I might run into.

One of the benefits of going with an entire frame is that I can easily go with much taller rails.

One of the drawbacks is that the front hanger of the front spring will be lower. This will change the angle of the spring. Not sure if it is enough to matter.

I also found that if I graft to the original frame, I will only need 24 feet of rail versus the 30 I was originally thinking.

thanks,

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Mark
Berkshire Transmissions
North Adams, Massachusetts


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 Post subject: Re: new to me Brockway F-257-T
PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 1:24 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 9:01 am
Posts: 233
Location: Northeastern PA
Mark, you sure have a lot of work ahead of you. There are a lot of options. Years ago it was pretty common in my neighborhood for guys to take a single axle tractor and stretch it into a tandem dump truck. I would opt for keeping the front of the frame as it is. Bring the doubler just ahead of the rear hangers for the front springs.

Since you might want to add another rear axle anyway, you might consider a long cut off from a truck with a tandem axle. You might save a whole lot of drilling and mounting time, if you could find a compatible donor truck.

By all means, paint the heck out of both rails whatever you do.

Go to the ATHS website Road kill cafe, or Tech section and do a search on frame stretching. there have been some very infomative discussions on the subject there.

Good Luck. Steve


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 Post subject: Re: new to me Brockway F-257-T
PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 5:05 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:09 am
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Hey Steve,

Awesome, thanks for the info. Adding another axle is a definite step. Not sure if I will use a cut-off tandem. Or, use the same single with an airlifted tag. I think one of the benefits of the airlifted tag is better fuel economy---not turning twice the amont of gears and four tires off the groud when not needed.
Plus, the truck is currently 34,000 GVW. If I were to get an 18,000 tag, that would put me where I want to be with overall GVW. I haven't found out yet if it's possible to up the GVW by bolting in a tandem.

thanks,

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Mark
Berkshire Transmissions
North Adams, Massachusetts


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 Post subject: Re: new to me Brockway F-257-T
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 2:04 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:16 pm
Posts: 111
Walter Carman has a roll back body like what you are looking for. I can tell you it will need work but ithink the price will be right. His phone is 607 785 3244. Tell him Scott Albrecht sent you. Last I knew he had 2 and at least 1 was for sale. Beat on him a little, he'll cry,cry,cry,cry, poverty but usually youu can get him to move on price. Good luck


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 Post subject: Re: new to me Brockway F-257-T
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 4:37 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 10:00 am
Posts: 699
Location: Lake Ariel, PA
Mark By adding another axle you can legally raise the GVW to combined weight of axle ratings or maximum allowed in your State for # of axles. If it were mine I would not extend new frame rails to front spring shackles. I would extend no farther than back of cab or 1' under cab. If you do as you want to do all the way to front spring it is a lot of work for a little or no benefit for the amount of weight you want to carry. Same for updating engine the 220 Cummins will work fine for what you plan on doing. This is only my opinion. We ran a lot of 220-250 Cummins and 6-71 Detroits until the early 1980's and got job done no problem running tri-axle dumps and over the road with these engines. If you put too much power in old truck then you have trans and cooling problems. Joe D.


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 Post subject: Re: new to me Brockway F-257-T
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:21 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:09 am
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Location: North Adams, Massachusetts
Hey Joe,

So I can register the truck for a higher weight than what is listed on the title by installing another axle reguardless of whether it is a twin screw or a tag? Does the GVW of the truck have to be assessed by someone certified to obtain paper work? Or is it as simple as just saying to the Registry of Motor Vehicles that I would like to register the truck for X amount due to the fact it has X number of axles?


About the frame, I haven't ordered the rails yet. So, the exact configuration is not set in stone. I have been researching about the different mannors on which to adjoin the frame and how and where to drill holes in the frame. I am receiving advice on this project from several places and there are a lot of commonalities, but also different views certain aspects. So, not to undermine anyone's recommendations or advice in anyway, I want to hear all the info and learn as much as I possibly can about the theory and reasoning of why things are done in a particular mannor to acheive the very best job.
Reguardless of extra work, (in my opinion) the #1 way strengthen the frame is to run new rails from the front bumper on back----entire new rails.
#2 would be to stretch the frame ahead of the front spring's rear hanger before the frame taper starts---about 3 1/2 feet shy of the bumper. With the hanger mounted to the heavy double frame it seems as if it would help move a weak area out of the the space between the rear and (most of) the front suspensions. With this the inner rail of the double frame would be cut in a taper to extend into a portion of the original.

If I did cut the original frame behind the cab, I would still extend the inner frame rail into the tapered area over the front axle. So, why not remove as much of the thin crusty frame as possible?

Hopefully I will make a decision before spring.



Hey Scott, thanks for the lead. However I have already purchased a Jerr-Dan 24' 15 ton rollback body.



thanks for all the replys,

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Mark
Berkshire Transmissions
North Adams, Massachusetts


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 Post subject: Re: new to me Brockway F-257-T
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:32 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 10:00 am
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Location: Lake Ariel, PA
Mark you can raise the GVW by adding another axle either tag,pusher or tandem rears. I do not know about Mass. but in Penna. when you finish installation you can go to State certified shop such as body installer or repair shop that is certified and they put sticker on door post with new weight ratings.Joe D.


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 Post subject: Re: new to me Brockway F-257-T
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 6:30 pm 
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Location: Lebanon,Ct.
The higher the GVW the more it will cost for the registration. As the weight goes up, so does the cost. Pokey


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 Post subject: Re: new to me Brockway F-257-T
PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:35 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 9:18 pm
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Location: Waterloo,SC
Mark
If you are going to use this truck as part of your tranny business you will have to put commercial plates on it and as Pokey says the price goes up with the weight. BUT if you are only going to haul other antique / historical vehicles to shows you should be able to do it with the less expensive Antique plates.. You will have to check with some other collectors in the state of Mass to see what exactly you can or cannot do.
Brocky


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 Post subject: Re: new to me Brockway F-257-T
PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 2:23 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:09 am
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Location: North Adams, Massachusetts
With my shop I have what is called a Repair Plate. I can use this plate on anything that is not registered that I do not personally own. For vehicles I do own, I have to get a decal on the back window that state the truck passes inspection and the excise taxes are paid. So, registering this truck with the decal to be used with the repair plate might not be much more expensive and then the uses are not limited. Before I make a move on how to register the truck I will be weighing out all the possibilities. With the 15 ton deck this truck will probably be the most heavy duty rollback in town. There might be some work for moving equipment and such----as long as the weather is good.


thanks,

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Mark
Berkshire Transmissions
North Adams, Massachusetts


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 Post subject: Re: new to me Brockway F-257-T
PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 8:39 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 9:18 pm
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Mark

OK I have seen those plates on the road but since I am not into the repair and towning business I had forgotton about them..
If you can beef up the frame and add the extra axle you may find some extra work for it, especially fork lift repair shops;
Brocky


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